I’m done with you guys

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[This piece was published a few years back in the Columbus Bar Association Lawyers Quarterly magazine. Because the state of our language continues its spiral decline, I’m posting it here.]

It’s almost too much to bear.  It’s enough to make my head explode. Our English language is slowly degrading to a point where things that were once considered to be bad grammar and offensive slang are now slowly becoming the new standards.

Using the correct pronoun after a conjunction is a lost art. No one these days gets the following phrase correct: “Contact either Joe or me.” Instead, you will always hear, “Contact either Joe or I.”  Perhaps the problem is that we no longer have nuns whacking grade school students on the backs of their hands for these grammatical sins, but it’s not just the loss of tough nuns that has created this problem; bad grammar knows no religious boundaries. Still, I wonder why the problem seems to be getting worse.

Could it be that I’m just getting older and, therefore, grumpier, or (as I prefer to think) are people just getting increasingly lazy about the rules? Maybe I’m just old fashioned. I wear suspenders and pleated pants, and I don’t wear my ball cap backwards.

In any case, the latest source of frustration for me is the phrase, “you guys.”  Oh, my, how I have grown to hate this phrase. For reasons unknown, it has come to replace the second person, plural form of “you.” It is almost a given that when addressing a group, a person will ask, “What are you guys doing?” Apparently, to ask, “What are you doing” would leave some doubt regarding who is being addressed.

I heard Savannah Guthrie on The Today Show ask a mother and her daughters, “What did this mean for you guys?” (I was watching morning TV because I was on vacation.)  So, a mid-30’s mom and her two middle school-age daughters are “guys?” Something is wrong here. I suspect Walter Cronkite is rolling in his grave.

I’ve heard young adult women address each other as “you guys.” I don’t get it. I’ve heard attorneys use the same slang when addressing a jury. “Now, when you go into the jury room, I want you guys to think about . . .”  Really? What’s next? Maybe, “Sup, Judge?”

But wait, there’s more. People have tried to use “you guys” as a plural, possessive adjective. Instead of hearing, “I like your house,” you will often hear, “I like you guys’ house” or perhaps “your guys’ house” and—my favorite—“your guyses’ house.” The only good thing about such bad grammar is that it provides a moment of amusement.  Because none of these phrases rolls off the tongue, you can sense a speaker’s discomfort in trying to articulate a phrase that, down deep, he knows isn’t quite right yet feels compelled to say anyway. It’s sort of a verbal stumbling.

When my wife and I were dining at a restaurant some weeks back, our waiter, a nice young man, ended practically every phrase with “you guys.”  “How are you guys this evening? .  .  . Can I get a drink for you guys? .  .  .  How does everything taste, you guys?”  The server who brought the appetizer asked, “One of you guys had the meatball?”  I admit my wife has to muster a certain amount of fortitude and stamina to put up with me, but I don’t think that merits her being called a “guy.” Need I speak of the age difference between the waiter and either my wife or me?

A friend of mine commented that the use of “you guys” is emblematic of an overall change in our language that requires adjustment from grumps like me.  Oh, please. Sure, language changes over time.  We no longer say things like, “That’s jolly good, old boy,” which, according to Doris Kearns Goodwin in The Bully Pulpit, was how people spoke in the days of Teddy Roosevelt. “You guys” is in another category. It is slang that goes too far and denigrates our language, and language—the thing that connects and defines us—is too important. When we allow our language to degrade, we lose something important.

I’ll admit there’s a place in the world for “you guys” or some derivative.  If you live in New Jersey, you can refer to your friends as “yous guys.” If you live in Chicago, it makes sense to refer to the people in the next neighborhood as “dem guys.” If you’re a cop in New York City, everyone would understand if you referred to the local Mafioso as “wise guys.”

If you’re a guy greeting the other guys in your golf league, it’s acceptable to say, “How are you guys doing this afternoon?”  There are other acceptable uses, but generally they should be limited in frequency and, for the most part, to exchanges between males who are contemporaries.

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Jack D’Aurora writes for Considerthisbyjd.com

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Also published on Medium.

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Comments

  1. Daniel Birmingham  July 23, 2018

    Enjoyed your article on the correct use of “you guys”. Just wanted to point out one other exception from its use… those of us from Pittsburgh would refer to “yinz guys”, not “you guys”. That is “How are “yinz” guys doing this afternoon?

    reply
    • jdaurora@behallaw.com  July 23, 2018

      I’m from Steubenville, and so I’m well aware of the word “yinz,” That’s a word makes “you guys” sound melodic in comparison.

      reply
  2. Fil Line  July 23, 2018

    Not to mention “no problem”, which has apparently replaced “you’re welcome”. That’s the one that drives me nuts. I really don’t care if I caused you a small problem, but if I say “thank you”, the correct response is “you’re welcome” and nothing else.

    reply
    • jdaurora@behallaw.com  July 23, 2018

      Fil, I think you have what it takes to be a grammar Nazi. Impressive!

      reply
    • Robert Test  July 30, 2018

      Fil Line —
      I used to think exactly as you do about using ‘no problem’ rather than ‘you’re welcome’. Language is not always to be taken literally.
      Take a look at this article: https://allthingslinguistic.com/post/124189121619/no-problem-vs-youre-welcome

      Meanings change and to Millennials ‘you’re welcome’ is sarcastic and rude. Here’s a sample of the analysis:

      “The sub-class of phatic expressions involving “you’re welcome” and “no problem” is known as minimizers, and “no problem” is indeed newer (although it seems to date to the 1980s, so it’s not a perfect correlation with Millennials). Other minimizers are “no worries”, “sure”, “my pleasure”, “okay”, “anytime”, “don’t mention it” and others in this list. Minimizers often vary by age, geographic location, and other factors: ”you’re welcome”, for example, isn’t so old either – the OED’s first citation for it is from 1907 (”my pleasure” and “don’t mention it” are older).”

      reply
  3. Steven Spring  July 23, 2018

    Great article, Jack!!! I see you got your link problem solved. I hated grammar in school, but now days, wish I would have paid more attention. I also admit to using the phrase “you guys,” though only in causal conversations. Much like calculators are taking away the ability to perform simple math, smart machines are turning people into idiots, with texting being the best example. Or, is that the worst example?

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  4. Dan McCormick  July 24, 2018

    Love to hear the Pittsburgh reference. Just got back and heard a conversation something like this. “I had just finished watchin the Stiller game and wanted a samitch so eyes walks to the GianIggle to get some jumbo and chipped ham. As I’m walking by the PAT stop on the Blue Belt I sees this old lady carrying SousSide luggage and wearin this long gloves…made it look like she stuck her arms in some jaggerz. As we stood under the telly pole I realized she was the mother of that guy that was in our home room. He was the jagoff that sat behind us and shot gumbands at the back of our head. You remember him, he worked at the still mill on the SowthSide then moved to MickeesRocks. Last time I saw him he was at a Bucs game back when theys was good. Anyway, jeet jet?

    reply
    • jdaurora@behallaw.com  July 24, 2018

      Thank you for an accurate rendition of the Pittsburgh dialect. Thank you also for not throwing in the word “yinz,” which brings back fond memories of my father. Though Pop’s parents were Italian immigrants, he turned out to be quite the grammarian. The word “yinz” would make his head explode.

      reply
  5. Miriam Rafferty  July 24, 2018

    Jack, I laughed my pants off reading this article. Never saw it the first time around. Drop the politics and stick to what really matters! (Lol)

    I dunno, I think “you guys” has a nice ring to it. 😁

    reply
    • jdaurora@behallaw.com  July 24, 2018

      Oh, puhhhleeeease, don’t succumb to the siren song of bad grammar.

      reply
      • Miriam  July 24, 2018

        I was just kidding! ! I hate the way our language has been botched. What really gets on my nerves is the repetitive use of the word “like” and the phrase “do you know what I mean?”

        reply
  6. Tony Gugliemotto  July 24, 2018

    Jack,
    Knowing proper grammer is the difference between “knowing your s**t” and “knowing you’re s**t”.
    Wish potus had a better grasp of the English language.

    reply
  7. Robert Test  July 26, 2018

    Enjoy your articles — and your reference to courtroom language is clearly on target — BUT I would appreciate a reference to some scholarly work on the evolution of language. Of course there are different speech registers — formal language, legal talk, and street banter. But no rule prevents words or phrases even grammatical constructions in one register from migrating to another and it would have been nice to see some examples.

    My ancestors were Quakers and they were nearly horrified whenever someone used the formal you when asking for instance “how are you today?” The proper form was “how are thee today.” When they talked this way to a judge or (in the case of Wm. Penn) a king they meant no offense even though offense was frequently taken.
    My point here is, criticism of ‘you guys’ is not so much commentary on language as sociological commentary.

    reply
    • jdaurora@behallaw.com  July 30, 2018

      Interesting perspective, Robert. Maybe my issue is more sociological than grammatical. Hmmmm.

      reply

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